In this Red Room Review we have some recommendations on how to use RPGPundit’s The Invisible College as a modern day horror game, or even as a sourcebook for other RPGs, such as Call of Cthulhu, Kult, Noctum, Conspiracy X, Chronicles of Darkness, etc.
We talked to David Guyll about the upcoming Dungeons & Delvers’ second edition and some other projects from Awful Good Games: new scenarios and settings for the OSR fantasy role-playing game and other RPGs coming down the line, such as a western with Lovecraftian influences and a science fantasy world. We also discussed some of out pet peeves, like PbtA and bad art in role-playing games.
Richard J. Selatti (aka @bluddwolf), our latest guest at the Red Room, proposes a return to the old “safety tool” paradigm, based on common sense and four decades of role-playing game experience.
The Invisible College is the starting point for the RPGPundit to discuss the Age of Enlightenment, real Magick, Aleister Crowley, his own interest in mysticism, religion and History and how all that fits into his newest role-playing game. He also talked about the different factions in the OSR movement, mockery as the best weapon against the woke and how more and more people are joining the fight against cancel culture.
Brian Shutter, today’s guest at the Red Room, is the author of Neon Lords of the Toxic Wasteland, an 80s and 90s nostalgia fuelled OSR role-playing game built upon BX rules, where famous Wrestlers are worshipped as gods. Lord Randy be Praised!
Welcome to the Red Room, Bruno Galan: in this interview Bruno talks about Chronicles of the Crimson Hound, his OSR Actual-Play pulp horror serial on YouTube, the upcoming science-fantasy RPG Undead Malefactors, “problematic” issues in tabletop role-playing and Twitter controversies.
Red Room: NEUROCITY is dark and partly Kultish. Is this what we should expect from Warpland?
Gavriel Quiroga: I aimed at a Paranoia/ Kult hybrid setting for NEUROCITY, but Warpland is a different animal, though. I think you will enjoy it. I made a huge effort for that world to make sense!
RR: Is it a science fantasy setting?
GQ: I guess it is a science fantasy and sword & sorcery mash up. My friends say it is He-Man on a bad acid trip in the middle of Patagonia.
RR: You are from Argentina, right?
GQ: Yes. I was born here but most of my life I have been travelling in Asia.
“I guess it is a science fantasy and sword & sorcery mash up. My friends say it is He-Man on a bad acid trip in the middle of Patagonia.”
RR: Is there a role-playing scene over there? I know there are lots of people working in RPGs in Brazil, but I know nothing about what’s going on in other South American countries.
GQ: The scene here is big, but it is dull and lacks courage. Most are just content with playing official mainstream RPG products. Brazil has the edge. With Diogo Nogueira as the spearhead. There is zero interest for my work in my own country!
RR: For most people the hobby is still Dungeons & Dragons and then all the rest, isn’t it?
GQ: Is it? I don’t know. I feel so alienated from those products that they feel from another dimension. Everyone I know is into the OSR independent scene. I love it.
RR: When was Warpland officially released for non-backers?
GQ: In the middle of June, but people are starting to play it only now. The setting is a bit demanding.
RR: So this is the right time to target new customers, is that so?
GQ: Yes. I’m growing awareness beyond backers, before moving to my next project, Ascet, a card game where you interpret an ascetic monk that seeks enlightenment, while demons try to lure him with temptations. Pre-launch Kickstarter will start in less than ten days.
RR: Have you developed any other games besides NEUROCITY and Warpland?
GQ: No! I have lost friends and fell into a profound vortex of chaos and depression because of these works. They are not products. I really have something to say. Every time I do this I need to bleed myself before I am finished. It is a nightmare trip.
“I have lost friends and fell into a profound vortex of chaos and depression because of these works. They are not products. I really have something to say.”
RR: You really did put a lot of effort into these projects…
GQ: I walked endless nights my friend!
RR: But they do look great! They have aesthetic references in common, but you are not a visual artist, are you?
GQ: No, I am not. I work with a big team of illustrators that are patient enough to work with me. I am a poet and an experimental musician in the underground Buenos Aires scene.
RR: There is a playlist for Warpland, is that correct?
GQ: Warpland’s playlist features two official soundtracks, one by me and another by other artists. And we are launching a dungeon synth album for Warpland soon, with several great musicians from the scene. It also includes an adventure written by Walton Wood.
RR: People I have talked to about the independent role-playing market have mentioned how difficult it is to promote new games. What has been your own experience so far?
GQ: It is like waving in a crowd. You only get a chance if you have a visually distinct product. Half of most social media groups don’t allow independent creators to advert. I guess it is understandable because they need to control spam. I know I can only compete for attention if I make something that is both good and original. And attention is the most expensive thing nowadays.
RR: There’s much more people writing games now. Probably those numbers increased while Covid restrictions kept us at home.
GQ: Yes, there are. There was a popular phrase from the New York ‘no wave’ scene “everyone here has a band”. It has to do with movements and creative forces, people feel that inertia, and want to be part of it. It is a good thing.
“I know I can only compete for attention if I make something that is both good and original. And attention is the most expensive thing nowadays.”
RR: When did you start with role-playing games?
GQ: I was 14 years old. We only had the Dungeons & Dragons Player’s Handbook, second edition, and we somehow made it work without having a clue or guidance. Great times! We played on recesses. We got bullied for being nerds, but we kept on playing.
RR: Was that still in your home country?
GQ: Yes, in Buenos Aires. I am trying to collect the books. They were a bit hard to find in those days. Then I found World of Darkness, and we started playing in a homebrewed fantasy setting using a variation of WoD’s system.
RR: Was that in the mid-1990s or later? I remember when everybody was playing Vampire, the Masquerade, but I am probably a bit older than you are.
GQ: It was in 1997. There was a popular role-playing Vampire, the Masquerade scene in Buenos Aires, but I was only marginally part of it.
RR: And from World of Darkness you moved on to Kult, I suppose?
GQ: I bought Kult on a visit to Madrid. Never found anyone to play with. Read it extensively. Love it! I wrote adventures and mechanics for it, even though I did not have a playgroup.
RR: Was that the Spanish translation? I purchased it recently, in a very good condition, I might add!
GQ: Yes. But it was not the current version. I think it was the second edition.
RR: Was it the one with the black and white cover?
GQ: Yes. It is awesome!
RR: Probably my favourite RPG cover ever!
GQ: Probably my favourite RPG creators. I’ve read and listen to their interviews.
RR: Yes, I also enjoyed those interviews, they were very informative. In the old days I knew nothing about them. Have you read their novel?
GQ: Yes, Jonsson and Petersén… I have not read it. Do you recommend it?
RR: I think they are in the process of rewriting it, or maybe the rewrite is being translated into English, I’m not quite sure about it. Well, they are better at writing games than novels, but it’s an excellent mood setter, especially for the old Kult. It is set in Berlin.
GQ: That’s OK, you can always read Clive Barker. It depends how your brain is wired. There are few great poets that could write a novel. I guess a similar thing happens with this format. Like a collage and a kaleidoscopic vision of a world with its characters and singularities; it’s the only way I know how to write.
“Like a collage and a kaleidoscopic vision of a world with its characters and singularities; it’s the only way I know how to write.”
RR: Which were your most important influences in literature, movies and music?
GQ: I am sincerely open and eclectic to all genres and most art forms. There is always something that picks my interest. I have a strong foundation that was built by the 1970s comic scene in Argentina, which was amazing and strongly influence by the Heavy Metal magazine. For literature: Kafka, Borges and Dostoyevsky. For cinema: Kubrick, Tarkovsky and Kurosawa come up to my mind as fundamental.
RR: I forgot to ask you about music influences, those surely are important to you.
GQ: Same thing. I listen to classical, doom, minimal tech, 80s rock, cumbia, trap and ambient depending on the mood and mind-set. I am very picky and usually respect the privilege of silence, when I am not in a social atmosphere.
RR: That’s really an eclectic taste! What about role-playing games, any other that was important in your gaming life, besides the ones you’ve already mentioned?
GQ: Black Sun Deathcrawl had a profound effect on me and the possibilities of being an independent creator. I think it is a worthy precursor to Mork Borg, the sense of the immediacy of the world ending soon. There is also an obscure splatterpunk science fantasy French RPG called Mantoid that I also love. And I am positively jealous and fond of Mothership.
“I am sincerely open and eclectic to all genres and most art forms. There is always something that picks my interest. I have a strong foundation that was built by the 1970s comic scene in Argentina, which was amazing and strongly influence by the Heavy Metal magazine.”
RR: That was a big hit. And yet it seems so simple. What do you think made it special?
GQ: The concept and aesthetics are so dead on that it brings tears to my eyes. It takes great talent, vision and effort to pull it off so perfectly. You cannot fake that with money, it is pure heart. And there was a vacuum in the industry for that concept.
RR: The same applies to Mork Borg I suppose?
GQ: Of course, same thing. I am a fan of Mork Borg. Warpland has a Johan Nohr illustration on the last adventure and the first line of the Tenet “What was written must be destroyed” is a wink to Mork Borg.
YOU CAN PURCHASE GAVRIEL QUIROGA’S GAMES ON DRIVETHRU OR VISIT HIS WEBSITE FOR MORE INFO
Red Room: What can you tell us about Cha’alt After Dark that wasn’t already mentioned in the Kickstarter campaign? Why do I really need that in my RPG book collection?
Venger Satanis: For me, Cha’alt is the ultimate D&D campaign setting. It’s eldritch, gonzo, science-fantasy, and post-apocalyptic. It’s also occasionally a bit sleazy, though not nearly as much as Alpha Blue. The Cha’alt After Dark adventures ride that razor’s edge between standard fare and the X-rated stuff you’d find on premium cable late at night or behind the curtain at your local used bookshop.
I’m including optional rules for sexual encounters, like mechanical benefits to incentivize hooking-up. I’m trying to achieve that pulp feel without letting players game the system, so it’s a balancing act. I’ve had lots of practice with Alpha Blue, so I know a thing or two about in-game sex and the pitfalls that go along with it.
If you love Cha’alt, then you hopefully want to see it flourish. Supporting these adventures supports me and that keeps me going.
RR: Are you working on something new right now?
VS: The feedback I got from the Cha’alt After Dark Kickstarter is that backers want physical books, even if it’s only print-on-demand. I spared no expense with the quality of both Cha’alt and Cha’alt: Fuchsia Malaise. The third book of the trilogy will be called Cha’alt: Chartreuse Shadows and that’s my next big project. I’ll be Kickstarting that book in September or October. It will include the adventures from Saving Cha’alt, Cha’alt After Dark (releasing in August), and another 100+ pages of new content… Possibly another megadungeon or several smaller dungeon-like areas ready to explore.
RR: What are your major influences as a role-playing game author?
VS: I take the vast majority of my influences from movies and TV shows from the ‘70s and ‘80s, also some older stuff like The Twilight Zone. The ‘90s to a lesser degree, although some of those might be cautionary tales. Definitely H.P. Lovecraft, as well. I’ve gone on about all the media I grew up with, but here are the highlights: Heavy Metal, Star Wars, Beastmaster, Alien, Dune, Conan, kooky fare like Zardoz, and probably an unhealthy dose of Monty Python and Weird Al Yankovic.
Simple, rules-light games inspired me system-wise, dice pools, simple D20 resolution mechanics, and free-form adjudication without dice… Or, at least, less dice rolling.
“The Cha’alt After Dark adventures ride that razor’s edge between standard fare and the X-rated stuff you’d find on premium cable late at night or behind the curtain at your local used bookshop.”
RR: And besides the major ones, were there any influences on your work you usually don’t talk about because role-playing nerds don’t care much about them?
VS: I feel like art could have influenced my tastes or a better way to understand it might be that there’s something inside of me that likes fauvism – wild beast, lots of bold colors – and old-school D&D and RPGs where you can go crazy and do wild off-the-wall stuff.
I’ve certainly been influenced by watching porn and years of trial and error in the dating scene. I was so bad at it for so long that I finally went full-nerd and bought some books on dating, basically putting myself through pick-up artist school. Learned a lot, put my acquired knowledge into practice, and eventually got married and had kids. RPGs like Alpha Blue give me an outlet that would normally go unfulfilled as a faithful husband: I get to pretend and/or watch horny humanoids from the 23rd century try to get laid.
RR: Your horror scenarios seem to be very “European” in nature for an American author. There are obvious references to Italian horror movies but, quite likely, there’s more than that. Would you care to elaborate on it?
VS: I like older American horror movies like Friday the 13th, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but they’re all pretty straightforward. European – especially Italian – horror movies seem to have more going on, subtext, detective work, psycho-sexual eroticism, bold weird colors (Dario Argento), Lovecraftian weirdness happening for no apparent reason (Lucio Fulci), grossly awesome special effects (Demons), copious female nudity.
RR: Do you play a soundtrack while running adventures? If so, do you have any standard suggestions for people playing your games?
VS: Lately, when I’ve been running Cha’alt one-shots on Roll20, I’ve been searching for desert or Arabian themed dark ambient music and listening to that while we play. I’ve been a fan of dark ambient music since discovering it way back in the early ‘90s – and that musical genre is great for any kind of horror game, like Call of Cthulhu. Specific names of groups? Lustmord or Oneiroid Psychosis would do the trick. Maybe Nine Inch Nails? It’s been awhile since I’ve fished out my old CDs, but I should do that.
“European – especially Italian – horror movies seem to have more going on, subtext, detective work, psycho-sexual eroticism, bold weird colors (…)”
I like old-school heavy metal and stuff like Depeche Mode, too, but anything too distracting or with vocals gets in the way of immersion, or just me trying to talk as the GM. After discovering Vampire: the Masquerade my friends and I played it all the time. I must have played Joy Division’s Unknown Pleasures just about every single time on a loop – to this day, I can’t hear those songs without being reminded of Vampire: the Masquerade. Haha!
RR: In a role-player’s mind your name is associated with the word “gonzo”. Was this planned, as a way to exploit a smaller niche of the role-playing game market, or has it always been your trademark as a game master?
VS: When I started out I was just a dumb, enthusiastic kid. I would run dungeons “on the fly”. Pretty much everything would be created spontaneously in my head from a handful of hastily scribbled notes. And I’m sure some of the weirdness I came up with was completely ridiculous and gonzo.
I never set out to create or exploit a specific niche, but once I got going and produced a handful of products, I noticed a couple trends in my work and deliberately steered towards that for the sake of consistency and my own enjoyment. Any time I try complex, rule-heavy systems, a small part of me dies on the inside. Same goes with games that try so hard to be “realistic” that they just become boredom-immersion therapy.
Since I’m now known for gonzo, I try to make my specific kind of gonzo fresh and vibrant and even more Venger than the last effort. One should never let one’s specialty become stale.
RR: Cha’alt presents a mixed science-fiction and fantasy setting, something that a lot of gamers appreciate. Quite frankly I have a hard time combining both. What is, in your opinion, behind the appeal for mixing two (apparently) contradictory things?
VS: The main one is probably not limiting myself. If I want sword and sorcery but also lasers and robots, then I don’t have to pick and choose. I can do both at the same time. There’s also a subversive element, too. Science-fantasy makes you feel like you’re doing something wrong, violating long-standing taboos. Dungeoncrawls that eventually lead to a crashed starship seem inherently off the rails – in a good way. I don’t like railroads as a play-style, nor do I like them as a design philosophy. Break barriers (in moderation) and you’ll eventually find an audience.
RR: Several of your role-playing scenarios and settings are based on humour. Alpha Blue immediately comes to mind, but it’s prevalent in most of your work. That isn’t easy to keep up while role-playing. Do you feel dark humour may have scared some players away?
VS: Humour may have scared some people off, that’s true. For whatever reason, I feel like humour is the natural state of roleplaying. I have to really concentrate in order to run a completely serious session or campaign. If I’m just being myself and doing what comes naturally, my GMing style is going to include jokes and eventually veer off into silly or slapstick or raunchy territory.
“Humour may have scared some people off, that’s true. For whatever reason, I feel like humour is the natural state of roleplaying. I have to really concentrate in order to run a completely serious session or campaign.”
RR: Would you like to mention some pro-tips to integrate humour into role-playing?
VS: If you know how to be humorous in real life, then just do that in the game. All I can say is look at yourself objectively as you’re roleplaying, see how ridiculous it is that we’re all sitting at a table, pretending to be elves and wizards and smugglers with a price on our head, then embrace that ridiculousness.
RR: And since tips were mentioned, you have authored a book titled How to Game Master like a Fucking Boss and you have a lot of experience in game mastering over the years. In your opinion, which are the essential skills a game master must possess?
VS: Yeah, that’s a favourite of mine and one of my top sellers. For me personally, a sense of humour is essential in life, not just game mastering. The ability to laugh at yourself, everybody else, and the world. My other two essential skills would be the ability to cut through the bullshit and the desire to have a good time. This is supposed to be fun – find the fun, damn it, or let someone else GM!
RR: Most OSR game designers make use of very simple layouts and mostly black and white artwork. Not you, though. Is this a personal preference or is it because you feel visually appealing books are lacking?
VS: I started out with black and white and simple layout. As I kept doing it, I took shots at higher production values until I started doing full-colour with some cool layout visuals. I don’t do the layout myself, though I do make plenty of recommendations. “No, put that over there. Those things are almost touching, move them further away. That yellow-green isn’t quite right, try this.”
Obviously, visual appeal is important. People do judge books by their covers, as well as their insides, how the pages feel. I want people to like what they read, what they’re holding. I try to impress the audience. Whether or not I succeed is up to the individual.
“People do judge books by their covers, as well as their insides, how the pages feel. I want people to like what they read, what they’re holding. I try to impress the audience. “
RR: Right now you are among the game designers immediately recognizable as OSR authors, but your games don’t seem to be as “gamist” (making use of the old GNS Theory jargon) as most of the other old-school RPGs available. Is your style the narrative or the simulationist side of the OSR?
VS: I actually spent some time at the Forge forum, so I know what you’re talking about. The jargon makes sense even though its foundation has cracks. In a way, my stuff may be more simulationist because I try to put characters into situations and let them role-play their way out. The role-play may take the form of social interaction, combat, or exploration, but the PCs have to want to keep going; some kind of motivation must be present. You motivate players by putting them in situations that are realistic and have emotional weight.
We play games, but I also want players to feel like they’re actually there, in a sense – to connect with the game world via their characters. The story invariably comes out of the disparate elements of each session, you just have to thread them together.
RR: Between games, adventures, YouTube videos and social media presence you devote plenty of time to role-playing. Do you have a day job, or do you make a living out of it?
VS: Yes, I do have a day job. The actual work I put into that job wasn’t very time consuming before the kung-flu. Since March of 2020, it takes even less of my time. That allows me to pursue my passion for RPGs. So, I’m extremely blessed and grateful.
RR: Though you are somehow connected to the conservative role-playing scene you seem not to really fit into that category…
VS: I always felt like the outsider. Growing up and probably even now in the suburbs, I was the weirdest one in any group I was in. That’s one of the reasons I gravitated towards Lovecraft. So, it seems bizarre that I would be the voice of reason, the sane one, the person speaking up for ordinary, Midwestern American values. But here I am, the champion of conservatism. That just goes to show how crazy the radical-left has become – and how they’ve managed to influence virtually every major institution – education, big tech, the media, Hollywood, the deep state, our military…
I’ve been harassed numerous time, people have tried to cancel me. I’ll have friends and colleagues leave me high and dry because I believe in biology or individual freedom or non-violence in the face of pseudo-oppression. After a while, you start putting two and two together. I’m pretty sure I know why a big online retailer won’t continue to sell Cha’alt on their virtual shelves. It’s because I won’t kneel before the woke mob and their SJW minions.
“I’ve been harassed numerous time, people have tried to cancel me. I’ll have friends and colleagues leave me high and dry because I believe in biology or individual freedom or non-violence in the face of pseudo-oppression. “
RR: While I don’t want to turn this into the theme of the interview, it does need to be addressed: What do you make of the newer generations forcing what they deem to be the necessary “inclusion” and “diversity” into the hobby? And as someone who has been attacked on social media by allegedly progressive gamers, has this been bad for business, or have you been able to turn the tables on your detractors?
VS: It seems like madness, but then revolutions can easily turn insane. Before you know it, the baby’s been thrown out with the bathwater. There was never a problem with including people. Folks didn’t gatekeep those who were different than them. Back in the day, we were ones who were different, and we’d welcome anyone who wanted to sit down and play. Didn’t matter what race, orientation, sex…
Standing firm against the woke mob hasn’t been easy. I’ve lost business opportunities, and friends, too, as I already mentioned. But I’m not the sort of person who goes along with the majority just because they’re the loudest or most aggressive. I do my own thing based on what I feel is just.
I put my faith in two things – the revolution ending as the pendulum inevitably swings back the other way and the next generation, Generation Alpha (as I’ve heard it called), are poised to be way more conservative than Millennials. It’s the natural state of rebelling against what came before. I don’t think kids today will put up with the critical woke theory being pushed on them as cultural Marxism continues to rise.
RR: Most readers will surely know the answer to this question, but I’ll ask it anyway: Your work deals with mature subjects, mainly sex, violence and drugs. What is your take on so-called safety tools?
VS: The greatest safety tool is communication. If you’re unsure, just have a quick conversation with someone. Failing that, use your legs. If a particular game just isn’t for you, walk out. I’ve done it myself. I don’t believe in checklists or X-cards. And I also don’t believe in forcing other gamers to bend to your will. I give potential players a heads-up so they know what to expect, but after that, I do what I do, using my own judgement to determine what lines to cross and when to cross them.
“The greatest safety tool is communication. If you’re unsure, just have a quick conversation with someone. Failing that, use your legs. “
RR: Is mature role-playing again missing from the gaming market due to so many worried about “sensitive” content?
VS: It’s there in the right places and right amounts, I feel. Mature content probably shouldn’t make up the majority of RPG content because that’s not what most people want. But there’s a strong and vibrant sect of gamers who crave roleplaying with blood, guts, drugs, sex, and tentacles… And I’m here for them.
RR: When did you publish your first commercial role-playing content and what was it?
VS: The first RPG content I put out into the world and charged money for was a little something called Empire of Satanis. It was bad on purpose (though, I may have only realized that subconsciously) and should only be appreciated ironically. It was my Andy Kaufman phase where I tried my hardest to make something awesome but in the most hackneyed and amateurish way – a bit like Encounter Critical, actually. I followed it up with a sourcebook called Satanis Unbound. That was around 2004 and 2005. It wasn’t until 2012 that I started becoming aware of, and interested in, the Old School Renaissance.
In 2013, I self-published Liberation of the Demon Slayer, a megadungeon that could be used with most versions of original Dungeons & Dragons. I did that as a way of testing out a prevailing theory. Like many my age, I grew up with old-school D&D but realized I wasn’t having as much fun as an adult with 3rd and 4th edition. There were two reasons for that. Either I had out-grown my passion for RPGs or modern D&D lacked certain fundamental principles we implemented in the early days of roleplaying. I needed to see which one fit me, so I created an old-school type of dungeoncrawl using either B/X or one of those retro-clones. As I hoped, it turns out that I wasn’t outgrowing D&D, I just enjoyed old-school styles of play better than modern versions.
Liberation of the Demon Slayer was successful artistically, critically, and commercially. So, I kept going after that. There are a lot of people, such as the RPG Pundit, who consider The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence to be their favourite product of all my stuff. Cha’alt was a return to that type of adventuring, which is probably why it’s been such a hit with the OSR crowd.
RR: Has the market changed since you first started as a game designer?
VS: I don’t think there’s been any kind of huge shift in the market. There’s still a lot of gamers who love roleplaying, but most are into whatever the modern incarnation of D&D is (thankfully, 5th edition is closer to old-school D&D than 3rd or 4th edition) or the other 800lb gorillas or super-niche, artisanal, boutique RPGs that seem to generate a huge following overnight and then fade into obscurity after 6 months. Of course, get enough of them on a consistent basis and you have a movement, like the Apocalypse World story-games.
The traditional way will always have a following. Just as there will always be a place for normal, old fashioned, conservative values, even when the rest of the world is jumping up and down, screaming, shouting, flaunting its rainbow monkey dong in your face.
RR: When and how have you discovered role-playing games?
VS: My aunt gave me and my cousin some D&D stuff when I was 10 and he was 11 or 12. I got the magenta box Basic set in 1983 with the Erol Otus cover. At first, we didn’t get it – but I still loved the pictures, words, and idea of pretending to be a warrior or wizard in that fantasy world.
A few months later, a friend at school who learned from his older brother showed me how to actually play D&D. I distinctly remember a one-on-one session where my character kept dying until a change in tactics and some lucky die rolls allowed me to survive long enough to reach 2nd level… and then 3rd. He was a fighter named Root.
“The traditional way will always have a following. Just as there will always be a place for normal, old fashioned, conservative values, even when the rest of the world is jumping up and down, screaming, shouting, flaunting its rainbow monkey dong in your face.”
RR: What was the game that caught your interest? And was there some game everybody else liked, but you hated?
VS: Besides D&D, I gravitated towards TMNT and other Strangeness, Paranoia, the WEG Star Wars RPG, Call of Cthulhu, Toon, Amber the Diceless RPG, Vampire: the Masquerade, etc.
I remember not liking certain games because the session itself was extremely boring. Bad GMing, I’d call it. I really liked the idea of Shadowrun and all the d6s, but the rest of the system wasn’t to my liking, same thing with Palladium games and GURPs. I owned the DC Heroes RPG, as well as, the FASA Doctor Who boxed set with Tom Baker on the cover – but I never really played them, nor did I try to run such games. Not sure if they seemed overly complicated or what, but I simply looked through them a lot and made a few aliens via random rolls with Doctor Who. Same goes for Over The Edge. Always wanted to play or run it, but just never had the opportunity.
RR: Do you have time to run other people’s games? If so, is there something that you’ve tried recently that you liked?
VS: Unfortunately, I don’t have time to run other people’s games right now. A few years ago, I did a short series of one-shots where I went back and ran some old favourites like Paranoia, Vampire: the Masquerade, and Marvel.
After Cha’alt: Chartreuse Shadows, I’ll be focusing on Encounter Critical, so that’s another person’s game (which I bought the rights to a couple months ago). Other than that… I’d like to run more of the games I grew up with for nostalgic reasons, and because they’re great games. Call of Cthulhu, Toon, Amber, and WEG Star Wars. The limited amount of time is a big factor. If I want to keep putting out my own stuff, my energy needs to be spent playtesting. But playing in games I’m unfamiliar with would also be valuable research. We’ll see what happens.
RR: Before we end this, one final question: Is the Cult of Cthulhu a real thing or a very elaborate joke?
VS: It’s real. Well, as real as any conception of the unknowable. We talk about God like we’re intimately familiar with him – and know exactly what he’s about. Religion is just a way of understanding God. Neither religion, nor God are within our mortal purview. The human race is on this mysterious journey without much to go on. Finding answers is key, but no one has a monopoly on those answers.
I’ve found a lot of deep truth in Lovecraft’s writing. The Cthulhu Mythos is as good as any pantheon or theology you could name. Plus, it has tentacles! Back when I was writing Empire of Satanis, I was also trying to found my own group involved in magic, occultism, and the esoteric wisdom found in the Fourth Way. Aligning all my interests with Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Cult seemed like a natural (or unnatural) fit.
YOU CAN LEARN MORE ABOUT VENGER’S WORK BY VISITING HIS OLD SCHOOL GAMING BLOG
Red Room: The introduction tells us about a game that’s half science-fiction, half fantasy, but the second half seems to be especially low-tech and post-apocalyptical, still more sci-fi than fantasy. Am I wrong?
Brian Shutter: Nope, you are right. The fantasy aspect is a low fantasy world and mostly covers the classic DnD monsters and magic.
Red Room: The Neon Lords core book is filled to the brim with references to the 1980s and 1990s, it’s fuelled by GenX nostalgia. Have you play-tested it with younger players or had any reactions from them? Can they even relate to this setting?
Brian Shutter: Yes, our playtest group has some players close to 21 years in it and, while they may have not gotten most references, they had fun playing.
Red Room: There have been several games exploring this nostalgia, but they approach the theme in a different way, putting the players into the role of what they were at the time – children and pre-teens in awe – and not the reason behind that fascination. Here it’s all about the heroes of our childhood. Have you any interest in The Goonies-style games too?
Brian Shutter: I wouldn’t mind playing one and seeing the other end of the spectrum.
Red Room: There’s plenty of green slime around that wasteland. I suppose while doing your research you found that 1980s science-fiction and horror are full of greenish goo?
Brian Shutter: Not only that, but the children’s channel Nickelodeon. That had slime coming out of their ears in the ‘80s ‘90s.
Red Room: I rather liked the art. Is it supposed to emulate ZX Spectrum games’ looks or it’s just a similar colour palette?
Brian Shutter: It’s intended. I have a fondness for the ZX Spectrum, despite being American.
“I have a fondness for the ZX Spectrum, despite being American.”
Red Room: The Neon Lords is definitely an OSR game?
Brian Shutter: Yes. It’s based off of the BX rules and built from there.
Red Room: The neon wastelands are supposed to be as deadly as the usual OSR game setting? I mean, should players expect to roll up a lot of characters while playing?
Brian Shutter: Yes! The game is deadly, that’s why we gave the classes a lot of rad abilities off the bat to have some over the top fun before being brutally slaughtered!
Red Room: What would be the stereotypical party for a game of Neon Lords?
Brian Shutter: It would be safe to assume the standard DnD party dynamic. Having someone good at fighting, with high HP, a healer, magic user, thief, and some random class would be smart. But, with that being said, I think any array of classes could do just fine.
Red Room: This is a huge book. I’m used to OSR games being smaller…
Brian Shutter: Yeah, its rules plus setting and two adventures.
Red Room: Which were your major influences when writing the setting?
Brian Shutter: Lots of heavy metal, ‘80s and ‘90s video games and movies, the 90s “in your face” marketing, Saturday morning cartoons and the prizes you get in cereal, the idea of enticing children to eat a product with a small plastic toy buried deep within.
Red Room: Would you care to name same of those metal bands and video games that influenced you?
Brian Shutter: Yeah of course! Bolt Thrower, Cannibal Corpse, Tomb Mold, Carcass, Napalm Death, Amon Amarth, Toxic Holocaust, Municipal Waste, Mastodon, Perturbator, Pig Destroyer. And the games: Battle Toads, Contra, Castlevania, Violent Storm, Altered Beast, Captain Commando, Mega Man, Streets of Rage, Doom, Duke Nuke ‘Em, Mortal Kombat, Gauntlet, Magic Sword, Rastan, Golden Axe, Quake…
Red Room: Did you feel restrained by the source material being ultra-violent, yet based in movies and animated series where the brutality itself is very cartoonish and tame?
Brian Shutter: I don’t feel restrained. We just take the stuff that influenced us and crank it to 10.
Red Room: You did the layout, but none of the art, right?
Brian Shutter: Yes, all the art is by other people. Each of them did a fantastic job bringing my words to life.
Red Room: Please, tell me a bit more about the setting. I would like you to point out what you find most interesting about it.
Brian Shutter: The most interesting thing to me is the world we know it was destroyed in the Neon Wars of 1992. Chaos ensued for millions of years that finally ended with the Gnarly Age, a time that harkens back to the 1980s and 1990s. Where they worship Gods such as Lord Randy, the savage one, and adopt styles and slang of the time.
“(…) they worship Gods such as Lord Randy, the savage one, and adopt styles and slang of the time”
Red Room: Lord Randy is Randy Savage, the wrestler?
Brian Shutter: Yes. The pantheon of gods consists of a bunch of wrestlers.
Red Room: Wrestling was bigger in the United States at the time, wasn’t it?
Brian Shutter: Yeah, I would say it was at its peak with Hulk Hogan and the Macho Man in the late 80s early 90s.
Red Room: The setting lives exclusively on American themes or did you have European influences too?
Brian Shutter: A lot of Games Workshop’s early games including Warhammer 40K, and 2000AD comics, mostly Judge Dredd, but also ABC Warriors, Nemesis the Warlock, and Strontium Dog are all in there too.
Red Room: For how long did you work on it?
Brian Shutter: Two years it took.
Red Room: You did all of the writing?
Brian Shutter: Yes, but I had some input by friends, and some editing help.
Red Room: Did the success of Mork Borg have anything to do with your decision to write the game, or the metal connection comes from other places?
Brian Shutter: I was doing all this before the Mork Borg revolution. Mork Borg is very doom metal influenced we strive to be more of a thrash 80s hair metal vibe.
Red Room: Do you think said Mork Borg revolution was good for launching your own game?
Brian Shutter: Good question. It’s hard to tell because we are such a small game, but we have some of the most rabid fans.
“I was doing all this before the Mork Borg Revolution. Mork Borg is very doom metal influenced, we strive to be more of a thrash 80s hair metal vibe.“
Red Room: How did the Kickstarter go? How much were you aiming for?
Brian Shutter: We aimed to get enough backers to get a book made and we funded in three days and hit 11k.
Red Room: That sounds good, but I am not a Kickstarter specialist…
Brian Shutter: Neither am I, but I feel we did very well. Especially since we have no other products out there.
Red Room: Are you planning on further sourcebooks or scenarios?
Brian Shutter: Yes, there is a list of books coming out: Hack and Thrash is a vehicle rule supplement with skateboards, BMX bikes, and Mad Max style cars and trucks, as well as some stats for your favourite vehicles from other media. Deities and Demi-Bros is a supplement stating and describing all the gods that can be worshipped in the Neon Wastelands, as well as various adventure modules. And Escape the Murder Maze, a death match miniatures game for 1-10 players, is also in development. It takes place in the Neon Lords universe.
Red Room: That’s quite a lot! I suppose most of that is still in the works?
Brian Shutter: Yes since the core rules is done I have time to crank out the other stuff. But it will be awhile before the next book is released.
Red Room: How have you been promoting the game?
Brian Shutter: I’ve been trying to promote on Facebook and Instagram, but I’m honestly not very good at it. It’s not easy; there are so many games out there. It’s hard to put yourself in front of all of the other great games.
Red Room: Do you have a website for Neon Lords?
Brian Shutter: I think eventually we will, but I don’t know much about website design.
Red Room: Will there be a print-on-demand version of the game on Drivethru?
Brian Shutter: The POD option will come eventually!
Red Room: Before we finish tell us a bit about yourself…
Brian Shutter: I’m 39 and I am from – and currently live in – upstate New York.
Red Room: When did you start role-playing and how did you discover the hobby?
Brian Shutter: I started on the board game Hero Quest and from there to an Advanced Dungeons & Dragons starter kit.
Red Room: And when was that?
Brian Shutter: 1989.
Red Room: You kept playing D&D since then or you moved along to other games?
Brian Shutter: I played up to 2nd edition and stopped for a bit, got back into 3rd for a while, then tried 4th and didn’t like it. So I stopped until 5th edition and everyone wanted to play DnD. So I played a lot of 5th edition. While playing DnD I’ve always had other games on the side and incorporated other game mechanics into my homebrews.
Red Room: Did you write any other games before Neon Lords?
Brian Shutter: I have not. Neon Lords is my first game.
Red Room: Was there some reason why you waited that long?
Brian Shutter: I never had anything I really wanted to publish, honestly. Until we started this gonzo post-apocalyptic, neon ooze of a game.
WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE FULL RELEASE, YOU CAN CHECK OUT THE QUICKSTART AND A COUPLE OF SCENARIOS ON DRIVETHRU
